BISFF Correspondence 通信计划
This program involves conducting brief email interviews with the directors of the international films featured in the festival, in lieu of the traditional Q&A session that follows the screenings. Through this program, we hope to provide a platform for filmmakers to discuss their work and share their insights with our audience in China.
为了跨越种种障碍，开辟更多交流空间，我们设置了“BISFF Correspondence 通信计划”，对部分国际单元的参展作者进行系列访谈，这些访谈将在作品放映后发布在联展各个媒体平台。
July Twenty-seventh, Tour of Suzhou Gardens｜七月二十七日，游苏州园林
Getong Wang
2024｜0:08:00｜China, US｜Chinese Mandarin｜Asian Premiere
Director: Getong Wang
Interviewer: Pincent Liu
Coordinator & Editor: Suliko
导演：王歌曈
采访：刘品呈
统筹、编辑：苏丽珂
Q1: The film opens with a traditional Chinese poem named "Faint Thunder Drifts," from a Song Dynasty poet Ouyang Xiu. The scene described in the poem is reflected mostly in the film by sharing the exact structure of opening with thunder and ending with a female figure. Could you talk about the origin of the film? When did you decide to insert this poem during the creative process to depict the vivid experience of emerging in such gardens?
影片以一首中国传统诗词开场，这首北宋词人欧阳修的作品《临江仙·柳外轻雷池上雨》中所涉及到的景致、园林内的各种意象，以及这首词“以雷鸣细雨开场，以一位女性结尾”的结构，几乎都在其后的电影中得到了对应。能否谈谈这部作品的起源？这首词是在创作的哪个阶段被叠入关于这次园林游览真实体验的创作中的？
A1: Selecting the poem was actually the most crucial process of this film! I made this work for my girlfriend so it is a love letter. Naturally, I thought about Song Ci, a form of traditional poem having a huge body of romantic poems. I had a couple of poems and poets in mind before filming, and Ouyang Xiu was one of them. I narrowed it down to this particular one during editing. And it did more than just be a reference on content or structure. I saw this selecting process as a creative method and practice.
I started filmmaking by learning experimental films. When I began to learn more about it, I realized that it is an art form with a mature language system but also very limited in some ways. It has become a genre, and many experimental films are just utilizing its pattern from its tradition. There isn’t much creativity that involved "experimenting" or taking risks. And this is not the kind of work I want to make. In this context, Chinese traditional poetry inspired me a lot of ways to work with the tradition. It has a long history of aesthetic iteration. Different formats of the poems have all been through the originate, until the Baroque period. Rather than theorize content studies in the contemporary academic world, all these texts came from the practice side of art making. On the other hand, poetry and experimental film function very similarly. They both seek to reach the maximum effect with minimal content. Their methodology share similarities. The traditional literati aesthetic stresses the spiritual appearance of the art expression — "Qiyun." It is also my strategy: finding the "Qiyun" of my work from poetry.
选择这首词可以说是最重要的一步！ 这个作品是我为我女朋友拍摄的，它的主题是爱情。自然地我就想到了宋词，拍摄前我就有了几个心仪的作者和作品，欧阳修的这首是其中之一。我在剪辑中明确了这首词。它其实对这个作品的支撑并不是简单的内容结构这样，更多是创作和实践的方法。
我是在美国学习实验电影时开始创作的。随着了解的东西越来越多之后，我发现实验电影有着成熟的语言系统，但其实又是有局限的。它已经非常成熟了，几乎是一种类型，当今有相当一部分实验电影与需要冒风险的“实验”其实并没有太大的关系，而是对于某种规律的使用而已。这种创作并不是我想要的。在对于处理这种传统限制创作的问题上，中国传统诗歌的不同形式从萌芽到巴洛克时期都有经过数次审美迭代。我从中发现了非常多的对于这种问题的解决方式，对我很有启发。而且这些论述都是以实践和审美角度出发的，而不是当代西方艺术史界的理论式内容研究。诗歌和实验电影很像，都是在追求以少量的内容产生极大的效果，从方法论上很多是相通的。中国文人审美讲究“气韵”，一种精神上的风格。这也是我创作这个作品时候的思路，通过诗歌找到我作品的气韵。
Q2: The film's most noticeable feature showing it was made from a collection of still wide photos but in different aspect ratios. There is a sense of continuity between each "blink," where the image cuts to black and slipped to the next scene. I am curious about the process of creating this visual form. Was the stasis quality achieved by a step-printing effect?
影片最突出的视觉特质之一是它看上去是由不同画幅的宽画幅静态照片连接而成，在“眨眼”黑屏转换场景之前的每段场景也保持了其镜头移动的连续性。我很好奇这种视觉形式的制作过程是怎样的？其中的凝滞感是采用了抽帧的方法实现的吗？
A2: I filmed with the Lomokino toy camera. It is a hand crank camera so the frame rate is slow and not constant. The "blink" effect was done by accident. The lab where I sent my film to processed and scanned used a regular 35mm photography frame to scan images. This resulted that the first and fourth in every four frames have been cut off some parts. This should be a flaw. But when I put them together during editing, it created a blink effect and turned into a happy accident. It provides an explicit rhythm. The cut to black is like a pause between sentences. Song Ci’s rhythm comes from how it frames both long and short sentence simultaneously. Boarding on this flaw, I created a similar effect in this film by leaving black screens.
我是用 Lomokino 的玩具相机拍摄的。它是手摇式相机，所以帧数很慢而且并不固定。“眨眼”则是意外的结果。我送去冲洗和扫描胶片的工作室用了常见的照片 35mm 画框来扫描，结果导致每四张照片中的第一张和第四张都被截去了一小节。本来是失误，但剪辑的时候就产生了这样的眨眼效果，算是意外的惊喜，直接给了我的画面一种节奏。黑屏就成了一种断句，像是标点符号一样，宋词存在节奏是因为它是长短句。我也想要在剪辑中达到这种顿挫的效果，所以就使用了不少的黑屏。
July Twenty-seventh, Tour of Suzhou Gardens, Getong Wang, 2024
Q3: You filmed many compact and close scenes in wide format, and how you dealt with light and shade contrast, all of this made me feel that my view was limited when I watched it. By doing so, do you think does this match the space characteristics and aesthetics of Chinese gardens?
许多景别较小的场景是以较宽的画幅拍摄的，再加上你对光影明暗对比的处理，都让我有种观看视角受限的感觉，这与中式园林的空间特点与美学有关吗？
A3: Ahaha, Perhaps! I don't really know much about Chinese gardens and their aesthetics. The contrast between light and shadow comes from pushing the film during the developing process. I wasn't expecting the perfect exposure. I thought about Mi Fu's misty effect in classical landscape painting. However, it is a crude camera. I did have the wish, but it's a stretch to say that was the plan.
有可能吧哈哈！我并不了解中式园林。明暗的对比是我用了迫冲（*在后期冲洗时作适当处理，如延长显影时间、调节感光等）来提高对比度，我没有太想着要去曝光清晰的影像。我有想米芾的山水画的点染效果。但毕竟我使用的是很粗糙的相机，有这样的期望，但如果说是计划的话就太牵强了。
Q4: The sense of stasis, as I mentioned, and the blurry, grainy texture of the film make the audiences feel like they're watching a dream or experiencing a vague memory. Besides a dream-like touring experience, the camera also seemed to be searching for a character, a person. Did you intend to increase the sense of movement, especially in the second half? It looks like a main character from this dream or memory showed up. Is the cameraman looking for his filming subject？
包括刚刚提到的凝滞感，胶片影像的模糊、颗粒化质感，这些都让观众有种在观看一段梦境或一段模糊记忆的感觉。但除了梦游般的游览体验之外，代表影片主观视角的主体又像是在脚下的一条小径上行进，如同一直在寻觅着什么，尤其在后半段，摄影机的行动感是否被加强了？好像这段梦境或记忆里开始出现了主要人物？拍摄者在寻找他的拍摄对象？
A4: Yes, I was aware and controlled the walking speed and how I cranked the film. I also emphasized the movement during the editing process by changing the duration of each frame. Like what you described.
是的，我在拍摄的时候有在注意脚步的速度和摇胶卷的快慢，在之后剪辑的过程中也加强了这一特点。你所说的确实是我在做的。
Q5: Could you talk about the silent scene as the film approaches its end? It is like the last searching process before finding the girl who seems like the main character. Her image gradually went from vague to visible.
能谈谈接近结尾的那段无声的段落为什么使用了静音的处理方式吗？那段像是在寻得作为主要人物的那位女孩前的最后一段寻觅过程，她的形象逐渐由模糊变得清晰可触了。
A5: During the editing process, I found the need to introduce more variety in the second half to change the film's state of mind. Like the movement of the change in speed, the silence is for a similar intention. They both intend to change the rhythm of the film and introduce new emotions to express my feeling. I made this film for my girlfriend. We just went back together after a breakup over a year before we had this trip. So this film is personal and talks about the feelings emerging from our relationship.
剪辑过程中，我发现在后半段我需要引入更多的变化来改变影片的情绪。包括你前面提到的速度的行动感，静音也是相似的意图，都是在改变电影的节奏和引入并表达新的情感。这个作品是我为我女朋友拍摄的。当时我们分手了一年多的时间后刚刚复合，所以影片很私人，更多是我们之间的关系所引发的情绪。
July Twenty-seventh, Tour of Suzhou Gardens, Getong Wang, 2024
Q6: The sound of the film is undoubtedly essential. The gradually emerging environmental nature sounds provide an incredible sense of realism in a dream-like film, just like what archival footage does in your last work, "Dream of Splendor." It seems that there is also improvised music with a combination of Chinese and Western instruments, which reminds me of some live music performances in certain public parks in China. Could you talk about how you work with your sound and music department collaborators and what your primary requirements are for the sound of this film?
影片的声音无疑是至关重要的。逐渐显现的现场自然音效在这部梦境般的作品中提供了几乎像是你上部作品《梦华录》中的档案素材所提供的真实感。片中似乎还出现了融合中西乐器的即兴音乐，能否谈谈你是如何与声音和音乐部门的合作者合作的？这部作品在声音上你首要的要求是什么？
A6: Thank you for asking this question. First, I must thank all the collaborators who worked on this film. My girlfriend Yuxin recorded the field sound. She was collecting different sound effects while I was filming. And these noises and human sounds all worked really well. Gianni and his friend Gs70 make the film score. Gianni and I met as undergraduates and worked together a few times. He is just incredible. He is American but has a great understanding and instinct for many kinds of music. I couldn’t done my part without his efforts. I usually provide particular music examples as a playlist; I even leave notes on which part of the music. I think it is better than a description from a few abstract words. Creating a playlist also helps me think more precisely about what I want and makes the collaboration process more efficient. For this project, I sent him songs from Eric Dolphy, Derek Dailey, Charles Lloyd, and Dou Wei.
Back to your first question, improvising music has many aesthetic similarities with poetry and experimental cinema. In Chinese literati aesthetics, it might be called "Qiyun" or "Gucai," and it can be called tone in avant-garde Jazz. Like poetry and experimental cinema, the most outstanding musicians have their personal, rich, and signature tone. The tone should represent the artists’ spiritual appearances.
Our collaborative method is that I present the tone I have in mind to him. He creates a melody and also improvises on it. We go back and forth to adjust and polish it to what we need. He also brought his friend Gs70 for this project. During editing, some of the rhythms of this work rely on images, and the rest depend on sound.
谢谢你问这个问题。首先需要感谢参与创作的合作者。录音是我女友雨欣来录的。我当时在拍景，她拿着录音器帮我采集环境音。她采集的很多噪音和对话都意外的合适。配乐是 Gianni 和他的朋友 Gs70。我和 Gianni 是本科同学，之前合作几次了。他真的很棒，是美国人，但是对各种类型的音乐都有很好的直觉和了解。如果没有他，我无法完成我的部分。我通常会给他非常具体的音乐例子，甚至标明是哪个段落。我认为这样比抽象的语言更为直观，而且整理的过程也会帮助我想明白我需要什么，让我们的合作更有效率。我这次给他听了 Eric Dolphy, Derek Bailey, Charles Lloyd 还有窦唯的一些曲子。
回到你问的第一个问题，即兴音乐的和诗歌以及实验电影在审美上很多都是相通的。文人审美可能叫气韵或骨采，即兴爵士就叫“tone”了。和那两种艺术一样，一流的乐手要有丰富的、标志性的 tone。
我们的合作方式就是我把需要的 tone 放给他听，他会创作一个旋律并在此之上即兴演奏，之后我们磨合并反馈，这次他还叫上了他的朋友 Gs70。我在剪辑时一部分的节奏来自于画面，一部分来自于声音。