BISFF Correspondence 通信计划
This program involves conducting brief email interviews with the directors of the international films featured in the festival, in lieu of the traditional Q&A session that follows the screenings. Through this program, we hope to provide a platform for filmmakers to discuss their work and share their insights with our audience in China.
为了跨越种种障碍,开辟更多交流空间,我们设置了“BISFF Correspondence 通信计划”,对部分国际单元的参展作者进行系列访谈,这些访谈将在作品放映后发布在联展各个媒体平台。

winder memories|冻天
horodiste vgroup
2024|0:30:00|China|Cantonese, English
Director: horodiste vgroup
Interviewer: Anqi Liu
Translator & Proofreader: Xiongzaixia
Coordinator & Editor: Suliko
导演:厚柔戴斯V聚落
采访:刘安琦
翻译、校对:熊仔侠
统筹、编辑:苏丽珂
Q1: The narration subtitles run through the entire film, and although they are mostly silent and can only be read visually, human voice narration does appear in a few sections. Why did you choose this "literary" subtitle design? Is there a specific basis for the choice of human voice in the film, and is this separation related to the title "winder memories"?
旁白字幕基本贯穿了整部作品,虽然它在大部分时候是无声的,只能以视觉形式被观众阅读,但人声旁白还是在少数几个段落中出现了。为什么会做出这种强“文学性”的字幕设计呢?影片对人声的选择是否有一些具体依据,这种分离与片名“冻天”的来历有关吗?
A1: In fact, in my previous works, such as the "Vigeo Cannonball Run" series, I used Cantonese narration. Although it gives people a very "full" feeling when hearing, I feel relatively natural. When writing the narration text of "winder memories," I thought that I spent my childhood in Shunde City and spoke the Shunde dialect. So, when recording the narration, I naturally used the Shunde dialect (the display of identity is a common "author signature" in a private documentary). But when I tried to watch the workprint with Shunde dialect narration and corresponding subtitles, I found that my narration seemed pretentious and noisy, and the accent was not consistent with the coldness presented in the image and ambient sound of my work. So, I randomly kept a few narrations and set the narration audio files placed on the soundtrack to mute, but still let them be encapsulated in the final version of the video file.
其实,在我以往的作品,如《Vigeo Cannonball Run》系列里,我都采用广州话旁白,虽说在听觉上给人很“满”的感觉,但我会觉得相对自然。在书写《冻天》的旁白文本时,我觉得自己的童年是在顺德市度过,操着顺德话。于是,录制旁白的时候就理所当然全部使用了顺德话(身份的彰显在私纪录是一种常用的“作者签名”)。但当我试看带顺德话旁白和对应字幕的样片的时候,才发现自己所说的顺德话旁白显得造作和聒噪,而且腔调都和画面和氛围音中呈现的冷感很不大一致。于是,我就随机保留了少数几段旁白,并把放置在声音轨道上的旁白音频文件设置为静音,但也还是让它们封装到最终版的视频文件中。

"winder memories" in video editing software / 视频编辑软件中的《冻天》
When I watched the final version, I realized that it was similar to reading the Old Master Q comics (i.e., "doll books"): both are silent, and the "reader/viewer" in the external sound combines the "pictures/images" and "captions/subtitles" to understand the stories. As for the Guangzhou dialect audio content in the film, they are actually independent of the narration. Some of them are audio contents from my past works, such as the audio of my father returning home at night from "Abduction 2: Public Domain," and the entire "Tuyue Communication" is a small part of my "Video Serialization Project" I have been doing intermittently in the past few years. I regard them as stock footage and directly appropriate and splice them). Perhaps like the subtitles and intertitles in the work, I hope that different narrations and even sounds can form a free polyphony. They each state and together explain my own memories.
而在观看最终版的时候,我意识到这和阅读《老夫子》漫画(即“公仔书”)类似:都是没有声音的,身处外部声音之中的“读者/观者”结合“公仔/画面”和“图注/字幕”来了解故事。至于片中有部分广州话的声音内容其实跟旁白是互为独立的,它们有的是来自我过往作品的声音素材,如,父亲夜归的音频来自《拐人2:公有领域》、整段的《兔约通信》是我这几年断断续续做的“视频连载项目”里头的一小部分,我将其视为stock footage直接进行挪用和拼接)。或许如同作品里头的字幕、字卡一样,我希望不同的旁白乃至声音也能形成自由的复调。它们各自陈述,又共同阐释了我自己的记忆。

Stillframe of "winder memories" / 《冻天》截帧
Q2: In the film, you revisit childhood memories from the 1990s, and many of these are presented through physical "old items," including "Old Master Q" comic books, Lego instruction manuals, and family photos. However, there's also a lot of content from non-physical image archaeology. For instance, when recreating the scene of you and your family waiting up for your father to come home late at night, the film directly uses the commercial you saw on TV at that time, which is quite impactful. Why did you make such an arrangement?
您在影片中回顾了90年代的童年记忆,可以看到其中很多内容是通过实体“老物件”展示出来的,包括《老夫子》漫画书、乐高说明书、家庭照片等,但也有很多内容来自非实体的影像考古。其中,在还原您和家人深夜等待父亲归家的情境时,影片直接使用了当时电视上播放的广告片,这个处理手法给我们留下相当深刻的印象。为什么会做出这样的声画安排?
A2: A friend of mine watched my work at BISFF on November 28. He told me on WeChat: "What advertisement is with the necklace's reflection? ... I often watched it when I was a child, and it always reminded me of the haunted MTR advertisement." So I explained to him that it was the De Beers diamond jewellery advertisement in 1995 (starring Waise Lee Chi Hung). I clearly remember that when I was waiting for my father to come home at night, before turning off the TV, the HK TVB Jade was broadcasting that advertisement. That advertisement formed a kind of "synchronicity" with my situation at that time, so I assembled the advertisement and my own experience verbally to present the scene at that time as much as possible. In fact, I believe that everyone will have similar experiences, looping some music at a certain period of life, and watching some movie clips in a hurry. When he/she revisits them after a long time, the music have become the background music of the memory of that period in his/her mind; those movie scenes may also be edited together with personal experiences in his/her mind or played simultaneously on split screens. As for me, I just use a low-level method to explore, develop, and visualize memories.
我有位朋友在11月28日的时候在BISFF现场看完我的作品。他在微信上跟我说:“那个项链反光的是什么广告?……小时候常看的,看到它总联想到港铁闹鬼的那个广告。”于是,我跟他解释到那是1995年的De Beers钻饰广告(李子雄主演)。我清楚地记得在等待父亲夜归时,关掉电视机前,香港翡翠台就在放送这个广告。而这个广告又和我的当时的处境形成了一种“共时性”,于是我就将广告和自己的经历口述组装在一起,将当时的情景尽可能呈现出来。其实,我相信每个人都会有类似的经历,在人生的某个时期loop一些音乐,走马观花地看到一些电影的片段。时过境迁再去重温的时候,那些音乐已经成为那个时期的脑海记忆的bgm;那些电影的画面也可能在脑海中和个人经历前后剪辑在一起或分屏共时播放。而我,只是用一种低度的手段对记忆进行探明、开发和具象化。

De Beers diamond jewellery advertisement (Youtube snapshot) / De Beers钻饰广告(Youtube截图)
Q3: Could you share how you usually collect these 1990s image materials? What kind of difficulties or surprises do you generally encounter in the process of searching for images based on memory clues?
请分享一下,您通常是如何收集这些90年代影像资料的?根据记忆线索搜寻影像的过程中一般会遇到什么样的困难或者惊喜?
A3: Vernacular video footage and archives about cities in the Pearl River Delta such as Shunde, Sanshui, Guangzhou, and Qingyuan in the 1990s are harder to find than I thought (especially at the non-governmental level). Perhaps it was because the people of Guangdong at that time were busy making money. New things came one after another, and everyone was tired of the old and greedy for the new. In addition, those materials are boring. If someone at that time had not intentionally or unintentionally preserved these things and circulated them on second-hand trading platforms, they might never be seen again. In the past few years, I have been trying hard to find and buy those materials, from a small map to a 184x260mm-sized local gazetteer. As long as it is not too expensive, I will buy it. After all, many of the audio-visual materials and books have become the only existing copies, and I cannot let them be lost or destroyed. Interestingly, those materials have circulated to Yunnan, Jiangxi, Beijing, Liaoning and other places, and returned to their places of origin through the sale of e-commerce platforms.
关于1990年代的顺德、三水、广州、清远等珠三角城市的地方性影像资料和纸质文献比我想象中要难找(尤其是在民间层面上)。或许是那个时期的广东人忙着赚钱。新事物接踵而至,大家又贪新厌旧吧。加上这些资料文献本身又枯燥乏味,如果不是当时有人有意或无意将这些东西保留下来并在二手买卖平台流通,可能再也看不到了。过去几年,我都一直在努力地寻找购买这些资料文献,小至一张地图,大至正度16开的地名志,只要不太贵,我都收入斛中。毕竟,其中不少的音像资料和书籍业已成为孤本,不能让它们就这样湮没或失灭。有趣的是,这些资料文献曾流转/流落到云南、江西、北京、辽宁等地,又通过电商平台的买卖再次回到它们的归属地。
Q4: The film tells many childhood memory fragments, but the last memory seems to end abruptly. The subtitles recall in great detail the night An-an was abandoned in the market, but then this section ends quite suddenly, and it feels unfinished: "An-an seemed to take something away from me...". Why did you choose An-an's story as the ending? Could you tell us what An-an "took away" from you?
影片讲述了许多童年往事片段,但最后一段回忆似乎是戛然而止的。关于家里养过的母猫安安,字幕叙述非常细致地回忆了安安被遗弃在市场那晚的情况,但随后这个段落结束得相当突然,而且意犹未尽;“当年的安安好像从我身上拿走了一些东西......”。为什么会选择安安的故事作为结尾?可以告诉我们被安安“拿走的东西”大概是什么吗?
A4: The scene of abandoning the female cat An-an is horrifyingly concrete. Because cats and dogs at home have been with me throughout my childhood, I was not too lonely even though I had few playmates, so I naturally developed an emotional bond with cats and dogs on a wide range of levels. This also affects my behavior and emotional shaping as an adult, as well as my focus and judgment on external things. If you have seen my past works, cats often appear as a concrete symbol. They may be my cat, stray cats I rescued, cats from other people, or even cats that have passed away, disappeared, or are engraved in archives. In the years when I rescued stray cats, I deeply felt the fragility of stray cats. They are like memories, unstable, easily dispersed, and not solid. An-an experienced the transformation from a domestic cat to a stray cat. I still feel guilty about it, but as a childhood individual who could not be independent at the time, I could not influence my mother's decision. Perhaps, what An-an took away was a sense of warmth that I used to comfort myself on cold days.
母猫安安被遗弃的情景具象得可怕。因为家里的猫猫狗狗一直陪伴我度过整个童年,令没什么玩伴的我并不会太孤单,所以自然而然对广泛层面的猫和狗产生了情感上的羁绊。这也影响到成年后的我的行为和情感的塑造以及对外界事物的关注点和判断能力。如果您有看过我的过往作品,猫作为一个具象符号经常出现,它们可能是我的猫、我所救助的流浪猫、别人家的猫,乃至已经离世、失踪、镌刻在档案上的猫。而在我的救助流浪猫的这些年里,我深刻感受到流浪猫的脆弱性,它们好像记忆一样不稳定,容易离散,不坚牢。安安经历了家猫到流浪猫的身份转变,我至今也感到自责,但当时作为不能自主的童年个体,我更无法左右母亲的决定。或许,安安“拿走的东西”的是一份我曾在冻天聊以慰藉的温暖感吧。

Stillframe of the Japnese trailer of "Zen for Subtitles" / 《一个人的字幕》日版预告片截帧
Q5: The profile mentions that your team horodiste vgroup is committed to "presenting remote geographies and private memories through poor images." This mission is clearly reflected in the texture of the images and the narrative themes of "winder memories." In the specific production process, the use of "poor image" style is more like a natural result of operable technical choice, or is there a more specific and conscious direction?
您的创作团队信息中提到,厚柔戴斯V聚落致力于“通过弱影像呈现偏僻地缘和私人记忆”,显然这一宗旨也体现在《冻天》的影像质感和叙说题材中。在具体制作过程中,影片对“弱影像”风格质地的使用,更多是可操作技术选择的自然结果,还是说有一些更具体和自觉的指向呢?
A5: The work before "winder memories" is called "analog memories," which is also through the acquisition and synchronous digital transcription of analog signals of media. "analog memories" switches back and forth between the original soundtrack and commentary track of a pre-made DVD at specific scenes to achieve the unique texture of the sound-and-image remix.
《冻天》之前的一部作品叫《模拟记忆》,同样是通过对媒体介质的模拟信号进行采集和同步数字转录的。《模拟记忆》是对一张预制的DVD的原音轨和评论音轨在特定画面进行来回切换,以便实现声画remix的独特质感。

Signal acquisition flow chart of "analog memories" / 《模拟记忆》模拟信号采集流程图
I mentioned in another interview that "in my childhood, VCD and DVD were the two most representative a/v media." Unlike DVDs, which allow multiple channels/soundtracks, VCDs can only switch between left and right channels. Originally, the a/v design logic of "winder memories" was similar to that of "analog memories," but due to technical limitations (or perhaps the technical loss), I was unable to burn a pre-made VCD that could switch between left and right channels. If it could have been done, the sound part of "winder memories" might have been funnier. Unfortunately, in the end, I could only record the digital signal of the VCD of the final version of the video (that is, the version that only retained a few narrations). The resolution of the recorded video file is 352x240 px, and I put it into a 1920x1080 px frame and added English subtitles. This is what the audience sees as "poor images of a high-definition frame (upscale)."
我在另一个专访里提及过“在我童年时代里,VCD和DVD才是两种最具代表性的音像介质”。与DVD允许存在多种声道/音轨不同,VCD只能实现左右声道的切换。本来,《冻天》的声画设计逻辑和《模拟记忆》类似,但因为技术受限(也可能是失传了),我无法烧录出一张能切换左右声道的预制VCD。本可成事的话,《冻天》的声音部分可能会更加有意思。遗憾的是,最后只能采录最终版视频(也就是仅保留了几段旁白的版本)的VCD的数字信号。而采录而成的视频文件的分辨率是352x240像素,我再将其放入到1920x1080像素的画幅中再配上英文字幕。这就有了观众所看到的“高清画幅的弱影像(upscale)”。

VCD stillframe of "winder memories" / 《冻天》VCD版截帧
Q6: There's also such a passage in the introduction: "It doesn't matter that there is no material recorded at the time, the key is that this Chimera can become a real memory and history." Why "Chimera" be used as an idea in this passage? Why do you think it's capable of achieving such goal?
在影片简介中也有这样一段话:“没有任何当时记录的素材并不重要,关键是这头奇美拉能成为真实的记忆和历史”。“奇美拉”这一意象对您来说有什么特殊之处?为什么您会认为它有能力达成上述目标?
A6: I remember that after the end of "winder" (1989-1998), HK TVB Jade broadcast the first and second series of "Digimon" (Hong Kong translation: Digital Monsters) in the following two summer vacations. There was a Digimon named "Chimairamon" in it that left a deep impression on me. In fact, "Chimaira" is the Hong Kong translation. Wikipedia records that "the word Chimera has evolved in modern times into a general term for mythical and fantasy creatures that are a mixture of parts of different species." I think the stitched image of "Chimaira" is exactly the same as the way I mix and match materials, so when I was compiling the word cards at the end of the film and organizing the film introduction, I used the words "Chimaira" and "Chimera" one after another on a whim.
我记得“冻天”(1989-1998年)结束之后,香港翡翠台在随后的两个暑假播出了《数码宝贝》(港译:数码暴龙)的第一、二部。里头有一只名为 “基米拉”的数码兽让我印象深刻。其实也就是“奇美拉”的港译。维基百科记载说:“奇美拉一词在近代演变为异种生物部位混和之神话幻想生物的泛称。”我觉得“基米拉”缝合的形象和我素材混搭的方式如出一辙,于是在片尾的字卡和整理影片简介的时候,我就心血来潮先后用上了“基米拉”和“奇美拉”的字眼。

Paper game card of Chimeramon from Digimon (collected in 2000) / 《数码暴龙》“基米拉”兽的纸质游戏卡(收藏于2000年)
When accepting this interview, I once again sorted out the types of materials used in this 30-minute short film for reference: 2D scans of physical objects, home DV videos, vernacular documentaries, government departments' documentaries, factory manuals (covers), local gazetteers (covers/illustrations), videotapes (packages), cinema tickets, canine vaccination books (inside pages), VCD documentaries (packages), sellers' show pictures, notes, family photos, mobile phone videos, educational documentaries, temporary shots (turning pages of comic books), memos, HD camera videos, Youtube videos, MVs, TV recording, cartoons ("Doraemon," "Kyōfu shinbun," "Bakusō Kyōdai Let's & Go!!"), memes, game videos ("Renegade," "Ghostbusters," "Blood Field | Cỏ Máu"), videotapes from Japan, non-smartphone photos, personal short films' footage/workprints/soundtracks/clips from my "Video Serialization Project" ("Abduction" series, "Tuyue Communication"), comic pages ("Old Master Q"), canned sound effects, soundtrack of the camrip movie ("Ouija"), textbooks/reference books' illustrations, other director’s independent films ("Investigating Father"), payment receipts, sales invoices, commercial advertisements, travel videos, Weibo and other online pictures, APP's map streetviews, Lego’s manuals/instructions, crime documentary soundtracks, cookbooks, and etc.
在接受本次专访的时候,我再一次整理了一下这个30分钟的短片所使用的素材类型,仅供参考:实物2D扫描、家庭DV录像、地方纪录片、政府部门纪录片、工厂手册(封面)、地名志(封面/插图)、录像带(外壳)、电影院门票、家犬疫苗本(内页)、VCD纪录片(外壳)、卖家秀图片、笔记、家庭照片、手机视频、科教纪录片、临时拍摄的镜头(漫画书本翻页)、标签纸、高清摄影机录像、Youtube视频、MV、电视录影、动画片(《哆啦A梦》《恐怖新闻》《四驱兄弟》)、表情包图片、游戏视频(《热血硬派》《捉鬼敢死队》《血田》)、日本录像带、非智能手机照片、个人短片素材/半成品/音轨/连载片段(《拐人》系列、《兔约通信》)、漫画内页(《老夫子》)、罐头音效、电影枪版音轨(《通灵》)、教科书/参考书插图、他人的独立电影(《调查父亲》)、车辆购置附加费缴费凭证、销售发票、商业广告、旅行录像、微博等网络图片、APP地图街景、乐高积木手册/说明书、犯罪纪录片音轨、食谱……

Some a/v products used for sampling of "winder memories" (taken on May 6, 2024) / 部分用于《冻天》采样的音像制品(摄于2024年5月6日)
Chris Marker said in "Sans Soleil" that "I am curious about how people remember things that have not been filmed, shot or recorded. How do humans remember?" (Quoted from "Resolution: Contemporary Video Practice" (Chinese version) Page 15). In the 1990s, there were no smartphones that could take photos and record videos, and even film cameras and video cameras were not popular in every household. A huge image vacuum was formed here. Therefore, any material that was excavated seemed very rare. And the family photos I have and have been taken in were all passively accepted/received. Moreover, when I was a child, I was not a genius child with "cinema wisdom" or "video-shooting awareness," and I never manipulated my parents' cameras to record. Now I think that this is not a regret. I am also glad that the photos of the past have survived many accidents and turns and have been digitized. Since I have the initiative to reshape my memory, I want to use the archives passively accepted/received in the past to create. Moreover, I am not the kind of hard-core fundamentalist documentary workers who pursue absolute facts/visual evidence. There doesn't have to be any material recorded at the time. There are so many ways to reshape memory: it can be pure writing, recorded narration, 3D modelling, material simulation, direct appropriation, a/v détournement... Anyway, my fundamental purpose is to activate my own memory and create a visual archive of my past personal experiences and observations. I believe that if I continue to create like this, I will be very satisfied in the future. At least, I have the opportunity to reminisce.
克里斯·马克在《日月无光》中说过“我好奇人们是如何记忆那些没有摄制、拍摄或录像的东西。人类是如何去记忆的?”(引自《分辨率:当代录像实践》P15)。1990年代并没有信手拈来的可拍照录像的智能手机,就算是胶片相机、摄像机也并非家家普及。这里就形成了一个巨大的映像真空。所以任意被挖掘出来的素材都显得很珍稀。而我所持有和被摄入其中的家庭照片都是被动接受/接收的。再者,小时候的我并不是那种有“电影慧根”或“摄录意识”的天才儿童,从来不会操弄父母的相机去进行记录。如今的我想来,这并不是一种遗憾,我还庆幸往日的照片能够几经波折幸存下来并取得数字化。既然我已经拥有了重塑记忆的主动权,我就想用过往被动接受/接收的图像档案进行创作。再者,我不是那种硬派的、追求绝对事实/绝对证据的原教旨纪录片工作者。没有任何当时记录的素材并不重要,能够重塑记忆的方式实在太多:可以是纯文字记录、可以是录音口述,可以是3D建模,可以是素材拟像,可以是直接挪用,可以是声画异轨……反正,我的根本目的是想活化自己的记忆,为过去的个人经历和见闻创造视觉档案。我相信这样持续创作下去,将来应该会很满足的。起码,有了回味的机会。
more information: https://www.bisff.co/selection/winder-memories