第二十八届联合国气候变化大会（COP28）闭幕在即，目前，大会在化石能源何去何从等问题上仍然存在分歧。为了共同回应COP28联合国气候变化大会的号召，关注气候变暖和可再生能源的利用，BISFF北京国际短片联展和世界自然基金会WWF携手合作，展开了一系列生态环境影像放映和对谈，将气候变暖和新型可再生能源议题引入更广泛的公众视野。
As the 28th United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP28) draws to a close, the conference is still divided on issues such as the future of fossil energy. In response to the call of the COP28 to focus on global warming and the use of renewable energy, BISFF Beijing International Short Film Exhibition and WWF worked together to launch a series of ecological environmental video screenings and interviews to bring climate change and new renewable energy to a wider public view.
我们选取了影像放映中“冰川之下”“反思能源”“凝望沙海”的三场精彩对谈，通过与气候科学家、公益环保人士、政策制定者等各领域专家的对谈，我们讨论了碳排放、沙尘天气及可再生能源等气候议题。在化石燃料的使用亟待减少的当下，可再生能源成为了各界关注的重点。能源结构的调整，与我们个体之间有着何种关系？人们熟知的“治沙”故事背后，我们应如何重新审视沙海与人类、荒漠化与人类活动之间的关系？我们尝试共同探讨气候变暖和可再生能源的复杂性，深入了解气候问题和可持续发展下的挑战，为未来的气候行动提供新的视角。
We selected three wonderful interviews in the video screening, “Under the Glacier”, “Rethinking of Energy” and “Gazing at the Sand Sea”. Talking to scientists on climate change, environmental activists, policymakers, and other experts in various fields, we discussed climate issues such as carbon emissions, sandstorms, and renewable energy. At present, the use of fossil fuels needs to be reduced when renewable energy has become the focus of attention. How does the change of the energy structure relate to us as individuals? Behind the familiar “desertification control” story, how should we re-examine the relationship between the sand sea and human beings, desertification, and human activities? Together, we try to explore the complexities of climate change and renewable energy, gain insight into climate issues and the challenges of sustainable development, and provide new perspectives for future climate action.
左滑查看 BISFF x WWF 特别策划 现场
📍北京德国文化中心·歌德学院（中国）
主持人：周思雅
全球有1万亿吨温室气体的碳预算，目前为止我们已经用了至少6,000亿吨。
The world has a carbon budget of 1 trillion tons of greenhouse gases, and we have used at least 600 billion tons so far.
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对谈嘉宾：唐伟珉
Guest speaker: Tang Weimin
现任WWF气候能源高级经理，专注气候变化和碳交易。担任挪威船级社气候变化部门中国区经理，后加入英国气候变化资本集团（“CCC”），任董事及中国区总裁。管理CCC在中国的50多个CDM项目，合同金额超过4亿欧元，年减排超过1400万吨CO2。在可再生能源、能效领域积累了丰富经验。
He is the current Senior Manager of Climate and Energy at WWF for climate change and carbon trading. He was the China Country Manager of the Climate Change Department of the DET NORSKE VERITAS and later joined the UK Climate Change Capital Group (CCC) as director and president in China. He manages over 50 CDM projects in China for CCC, with contracts worth over 400 million euros and annual emissions reductions of over 14 million tons of CO2. He has accumulated rich experience in renewable energy and energy efficiency.
唐伟珉 Tang Weimin：
我们在气候科学里面有一个叫碳预算的概念，我们地球周围所有的温室气体，包括二氧化碳、甲烷等等，它的总量是有一个极限的，如果超过了这个极限，那我们人类再怎么努力，气候变暖的阈值达到以后，整个气候恶化是不可遏制的。
In climate science, we have a concept called carbon budget. All the greenhouse gases around the earth, including carbon dioxide, methane, and so on, have a limit to their total amount. If this limit is exceeded, then no matter how hard we human beings try, after the warming threshold is reached, the deterioration of the whole climate will be unstoppable.
全球有1万亿吨温室气体的碳预算，目前为止我们已经用了至少6,000亿吨了，而人类每一年还在向地球排放大概410亿吨的温室气体。所以如果我们不采取紧迫的行动的话，可能10年这个气候变化的趋势会越恶劣。
There is a global carbon budget of 1 trillion tons of greenhouse gases, and so far, we have used at least 600 billion tons, while humans are still emitting roughly 41 billion tons of greenhouse gases into the Earth every year. So if we don’t take urgent action, this climate change trend is going to get worse probably within 10 years.
最近我们会看到说，现在随便一下雨就是一百年一遇，随便一酷热就是几百年一遇。这种今后都会变成常态，如果我们不采取比较激进的措施来减排，10年以后可能我们每一年都会遇到千年一遇的洪水酷暑等等，所以气候变化其实是很严重的问题。
Recently we see that a random rain might be an unprecedented one in history, the same as a random heat. This will become the norm in the future. If we do not take more radical measures to reduce emissions, we may encounter such floods and heat in every year after ten years. So climate change is a very serious problem.
之前我们国家在可再生能源上一直是一个追随者，包括很多的技术，包括项目的实施，装备的生产制造，我们一直是追随的。我最早做这些科研项目的时候，我们听到的更多都是国外的设备，但现在慢慢地从追随变成领先了，至少说在装备制造方面，我们是绝对的世界大国。
China has been a follower of renewable energy, including a lot of technologies, implementing projects, and the production and manufacture of equipment. When I first did these research projects, we heard more equipment from foreign countries, but now we are gradually taking the lead, at least in terms of equipment manufacturing. We are the world’s power.
比方说在今年的联合国气候大会上，我们国家领导人公布的数字显示，全球50%的风电装备、80%以上的光伏设备都是由我们来提供的。所以我们不断从生产上为全世界提供了更多的装备来共同抗击气候变暖，在这方面我觉得我们国家是说到做到，而且是在领先的位置。
For example, at this year’s United Nations Climate Conference, the figures released by our leaders show that 50% of the world’s wind power equipment and over 80% of the photovoltaic equipment are provided by us. So we continue to produce more and more equipment for the world to fight climate change. In this regard, I think our country means what it says, and plays a leading role. The development of renewable energy still has its challenges.
可再生能源的发展仍然有它的挑战。我觉得可再生能源要发展离不开每一个行业和每一个人的努力，其实有一些方面我们是可以做贡献的。比方说现在尤其是在大城市，大家觉得电费其实很微不足道，但是仍然提倡大家随手关灯，仍然提倡去吃饭的时候，一个盘子就吃到底的，因为洗涤的过程要消耗非常多的洁净水。比方说我们喝了一瓶水，我们就把它带走等等，使用绿色出行方式，我们每一个人的努力都会带动变化，会帮助更洁净的电力系统建设运行。
The development of renewable energy needs the joint efforts of every industry and every person. There are some areas where we can make contributions. For example, now, especially in big cities, people think that electricity is very insignificant, but it is still advocated that everyone turn off the lights, and it is still advocated to eat without waste because the washing process consumes a lot of clean water. For example, if we drink a bottle of water, we take it with us. We travel on green transportation. each of our efforts will lead to change and help to build and operate a cleaner electricity system.
其实气候变化与我们密切相关，我觉得是我们国家把大家保护得太好了，所以大家感受不到非常多的这方面的问题，但如果你在南美、在非洲的话，随便一个大旱大火，可能半个国家就挨饿了，然后水源就没有了。
Climate change is closely related to us. I think it’s our country protects us all too well, so we feel little about this problem. But if you’re in South America or Africa, a big drought or a big fire can leave half of a country hungry and with little water resources.
当地球升温1.5度，现在看来已经不可遏制了，再升高两度，很多人觉得多花一两百块钱多开点空调就行。很可能10年、20年以后，超过一大半的蜜蜂没有了，你再也吃不到苹果，或者说一个苹果已经500块钱一个了，然后小麦减产60%，大豆不知道为什么不结了。可能我觉得我们被保护得太好了，或者说我们的政府也不想这样吓唬大家，但这些情况其实是非常可能存在的。至少你看现在非洲一场干旱和瘟疫其实就造成非常大的影响。所以这些其实是跟我们每个人密切相关的。
It now seems to be unstoppable for the earth’s temperature to increase by 1.5 degrees Celsius. and if it rises by two degrees, many people feel they can spend more than one hundred or two hundred dollars to open some air conditioning. It is likely that after 10 or 20 years, more than half of the bees will be gone, and people can no longer eat apples or need to pay 500 yuan for one. Wheat production will be reduced by 60%. Soybeans will not drop any bean pods for some reason. Maybe I think we are too well protected, or our government does not want to scare us, but these situations are very possible. At least you can see that a drought and a plague in Africa right now are having a big impact. So, these are things that apply to each of us.
唐伟珉（右）在活动现场 Tang Weimin（right side）at BISFF
在环境保护的话题里，可再生能源是解决人类能源问题、环境问题的必由之路。
For environmental protection, renewable energy is the only way to solve problems in energy and the environment.
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对谈嘉宾：秦海岩
Guest Speaker: Qin Haiyan
世界⻛能协会(WWEA)副主席、国际电工委员会可再生能源认证体系(IECRE)副主席、全球⻛能组织(GWO) 执委、中国可再生能源学会⻛能专业委员会(CWEA)秘书⻓、国家海上⻛电装备质量监督检验中心主任、北京鉴衡认证中心(CGC)主任。
Vice Chairman of the World Wind Energy Association (WWEA), Vice Chairman of the International Electrotechnical Commission Renewable Energy Certification System (IECRE), Executive Committee of the Global Wind Energy Organization (GWO), Secretary-General of the Wind Energy Professional Committee of the Chinese Renewable Energy Society (CWEA), Director of the National Offshore Wind Power Equipment Quality Supervision and Inspection Center, Director of the Beijing Jianheng Certification Center (CGC).
秦海岩 Qin Haiyan：
现阶段社会的能源结构比较稳定，我们为什么要去放弃现有的能源结构，去追求可再生能源的代替？因为能源对人类生产生活太重要了。没有能源人类是很难生存发展的，更不要说走入文明的时代。能源也是在不断地变革，每一次能源变革的时候，其实就是一次人类新的进步。
At present, the energy structure of society is relatively stable, so why should we give up the existing energy structure to pursue renewable energy? Because energy is so important to human production and life. Without energy, it is difficult for human beings to survive and develop, let alone enter the era of civilization. Energy is also constantly changing, and every time energy changes, it is new progress for human beings.
现在我们国家还是以煤为主的一个时代，为什么有这么多的雾霾？北京2012年前后的雾霾很严重，其实100多年前伦敦的雾霾也很严重。其实是能源结构导致的。核能的争议也很大，比如最著名的切尔诺贝利事件。水电肯定是很清洁的，但是水电毕竟能开发的地方很少。煤炭会产生污染，现在又出现了一个新的问题，所谓的气候变化，因为人类燃烧大量化石能源，二氧化碳浓度在增高，导致了温室效应，这些年大家有目共睹，也亲身感受到了这个环境的恶劣，极端的天气越来越多，这都是气候变化带来的问题，怎么解决这个问题？人类的文明继续发展必须要找到新的能源。
Now our country is still dominated by coal. Why is there so much smog? The smog in Beijing around 2012 was very severe. The smog in London over 100 years ago was also very serious. It’s the energy mix. Nuclear power has also been controversial. The most famous one is the Chornobyl disaster. Hydropower is clean, but only viable in a few areas. Coal will produce pollution. Now there is an additional problem, the so-called climate change. As human beings have burned a lot of fossil fuels, carbon dioxide concentration is increasing, leading to the greenhouse effect. We have seen it all these years and experienced the harsh environment. Climate change has brought about more and more extreme weather. How to solve this problem? Alternative sources of energy must be found to develop human civilization.
传统能源已经不能支持我们可持续发展了，所以风能和光能这两年走上了舞台。风电原来是很贵的，10年前发电的成本在一块钱一度左右。我们所有干风电的都是在荒山野岭，没有人烟的地方。现在在内蒙古、新疆这些地方，我们可以做到一毛五到两毛一度电，比火电还便宜，当地的火电是三毛一度。使用这样没有污染、没有二氧化碳排放的能源，是我们的目标。风和光是取之不竭用之不尽的。我们国家煤炭储采比算下来，就是储量和每年开采量相除，还剩50年的煤炭可以开采。
Traditional energy can no longer support our sustainable development. Wind and light power have stepped onto the stage in the past two years. Wind power used to be very expensive. The price of electricity generation was about a dollar per watt 10 years ago. We built wind power stations in the middle of nowhere. At present, we can achieve 15 to 20 cents per watt of electricity, which is cheaper than the local thermal power, 30 cents per watt in Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang. Using such pollution- and carbon-dioxide- free energy is our goal. Wind and light are inexhaustible. However, according to the proportion of our national coal storage to annual mining, only 50 years left to be mined.
我们都知道城市必须要用电，目前我们国家可能有百分之十几的供电是来自风电。一些居民区旁不可能建风电，因为它是个庞然大物。风能在城市周边的设施主要集中在一些工业园区的厂房旁边，还有一些分散式风电。大家有时间可以去江阴，甚至天津的一些润滑油厂区，都搞过分散式的风电装置。
We all know that cities have to use electricity, and right now maybe 10 percent of China’s electricity comes from wind power. It’s impossible to build wind power stations next to some residential areas because they are behemoths. Wind energy facilities around the city are mainly concentrated next to some industrial parks, and there are some decentralized wind power stations. You can go to Jiangyin to have a look, and even some lubricant factories in Tianjin have decentralized wind power devices.
风电刚起步的时候，有些环保组织会说，风机立起来“打死鸟了”，“底下的牛都不产奶了”，“羊都不吃草了”。首先，人类从事的任何工程设备不可能对环境没有影响。所谓打死鸟可能是大家印象最深刻的质疑了，我们国内外都做过很多的统计，国外搞风电搞了三四十年了，在发展风电之前他们做了大量对环境影响的研究。鸟撞上行驶的车死了，几率是不是很小？现在撞在风机上死的鸟比撞在汽车上死的鸟要少一百个数量级。所以说鸟撞在风机上是非常小概率的事件。
When the wind power stations first started, some environmental protection organizations said that after the wind-driven generator stood up, “the birds were killed”, “the cows did not produce milk”, and “the sheep did not eat grass”. First, no engineering equipment that humans establish can have no impact on the environment. The so-called killing of birds may be the most impressive question for everyone. We have made a lot of statistics at home and abroad. Foreign countries have used wind power for 30 to 40 years, and they have done a lot of studies on the environmental impact before developing wind power. What are the odds of a bird hitting a moving machine and dying? There are now 100 fewer birds killed by wind turbines than by cars. So, a bird hitting a wind turbine is an improbable event.
风电对环境的影响是微乎其微的。大家看到好多搞海上风电的，其实海上风电在风电的基础上形成的人工岛礁，对生物多元化产生了积极的影响，风机下面的鱼和微生物等各种生物反而增多了。风电对环境的影响最大的诟病是欧洲的景观污染，人们认为它影响了天际线，看起来很难看，但是对我来说这是见仁见智的问题。
The environmental impact of wind power is minimal. The artificial islands formed by offshore wind power based on wind power have had a positive impact on biodiversity. Various organisms, such as fish and microorganisms under wind turbines, have increased. The biggest criticism of the environmental impact of wind turbines is the landscape pollution in Europe. People think it affects the skyline and looks ugly, but for me, it is a matter of opinion.
中国风电资源的储量，陆上要超过60亿千瓦，海上近海的储备超过22亿千瓦。也就是说风电如果完全开采，完全可以满足人类对电力的需求。现在我们国家风电的装机量在5亿千瓦左右，全球是10亿千瓦，中国占了一半，这还只是刚刚起步。
China’s reserves of wind power resources are over 6 billion kilowatts onshore and over 2.2 billion kilowatts offshore. In other words, if wind power is fully exploited, it can fully meet the human demand for electricity. At present, the installed capacity of wind power in our country is about 500 million kilowatts, and the world is 1 billion kilowatts. China accounts for half of it, which is just at the outset.
现阶段去大规模推广风电，目前从技术上来说其实已经没有什么难点了。我们10年前干风电最难的是风电太贵了，成本太高了。现在我们做得比火电还便宜了，所以基本上技术上、经济上都没有问题了。
At this stage, technically speaking, there is no difficulty in large-scale promotion of wind power. The hardest thing about wind power, when we started 10 years ago, was that it cost too much. Now we can do it cheaper than thermal power, so basically there is no problem with technology and the economy.
但要继续发展风电仍然有两大挑战。一是电力系统的变革，目前整个电力系统风能只占10%，我们要实现把煤炭发电淘汰掉，90%以上来自风电时，整个电力系统其实面临着一个大的变革。因为风电、光电跟火电是完全不一样的，风和光是波动性的，原先的电力系统肯定不适应这种电源。从整个电力系统来说是有技术可以解决的，包括储能等等方式，这是其一。
However, there are two major challenges to continuing to develop wind power. At present, wind energy only accounts for 10% of the entire power system. If we want to achieve the elimination of coal power generation, over 90% from wind power, then the entire power system is facing a big change. Because wind power, photoelectric, and thermal power are completely different. Wind and light are volatile. The original power system is certainly not adapted to this power supply. From the entire power system, some technologies can be solved, including energy storage and so on.
二是在认识上，到体制上，尤其是文化上，要拥抱未来。一个新事物出现的时候，一定会有利益上的影响。搞火电的怎么办？这种利益上冲突会越来越激烈，这是需要我们去协调去解决的问题。思想的改变也很重要，人不仅要为利益去做决策，人类的文明是需要靠思想的不断进步来实现的。
The second challenge is to embrace the future in terms of cognition, system, especially culture. When a new thing comes along, there must be conflicts in profits. What about the thermal power guys? This kind of conflict of interest will become more and more intense, which is a problem that we need to coordinate and solve. The change of thought is also fundamental. People not only need to decide for their interests but also need to make progress in their thoughts.
在环境保护的话题里，可再生能源是解决人类能源问题、环境问题的必由之路。我们目前看到的最现实、最经济的可以满足人类能源安全，能解决能源的环境问题，维持可持续发展，就是可再生能源。
For environmental protection, renewable energy is the only way to solve problems in energy and the environment. At present, renewable energy is the most realistic and economical way to meet human energy security, solve environmental problems of energy, and maintain sustainable development.
秦海岩（右）在活动现场 Qin Haiyan（right side）at BISFF
沙尘暴这种自然现象其实是无法被彻底消除的，但危害能够被减小。
Sandstorms are inevitable, but we can reduce the harm.
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对谈嘉宾：周金星
Guest Speaker: Zhou Jinxing
北京林业大学水土保持工程教研室主任。任中国陆地生态系统观测研究网络（CTERN）云南建水生态站站长、教育部林业生态工程研究中心主任、西南岩溶石漠化治理国家创新联盟理事长、中国林业工程建设协会石漠化监测与综合治理专业委员会副主任委员。获国家林草局“百千万人才工程”省部级人选、“中国林业青年科技奖”、“中国水土保持青年科技奖”、“北林学者”杰出青年。研究领域：水土保持与荒漠化防治、石漠化治理、生态修复工程。
He is the director of Soil and Water Conservation Engineering Department, Beijing Forestry University, the director of Yunnan Jianshui Ecological Station of China Terrestrial Ecosystem Research Network (CTERN), the director of Forestry Ecological Engineering Research Center of Ministry of Education, the chairman of Southwest Karst Rocky Desertification Governance National Innovation Alliance, and the vice chairman of Rocky Desertification Monitoring and Comprehensive Governance Specialized Committee of China Forestry Engineering Association. He is the provincial and ministerial level candidate of talents project by the State Forestry and Grassland Administration, and received “China Science & Technology Award for Young Talents in Forestry”, “China Science and Technology Award for Young Talents in Soil and Water Conservation”, and “Outstanding Youth of Beijing Forestry University Scholars”. His topics of research are soil and water conservation, desertification control, rocky desertification management, and ecological restoration engineering.
周金星 Zhou Jinxing：
我们国家原来的土地荒漠化还是比较严重的，受限于过去社会经济的发展水平，也不重点要求把所有的这些风沙灾害能够都防治住。
Desertification in China was once a significant issue. The previous low level of social and economic development made it difficult for us to tackle effectively the requirements for sandstorm prevention and control.
影片当中展示的草方格沙障，是一种工程治沙方式。流动沙丘的形成是由于土壤里的有机质都被吹走了，土壤中没有黏腻物质，也就失去了植物生存的空间。如果采用草方格，就相当于是增加人工有机质，种上去之后，就能够固定流动沙丘。
The grass barriers shown in the film are a way to control desertification. The wind removes organic matter from the soil and makes it difficult for vegetation to grow, causing the dunes to shift. However, grass barriers can stabilize the dunes, acting like artificial organic matter in the soil.
另外，草方格沙障也增加了地表有机质，包括一些昆虫，可以改善小气候。所以固定地表既能减少沙尘飞扬，又能改善环境。草方格沙障是现在治理流动沙丘的典型措施之一。
Grass barriers have the added benefit of increasing the organic matter in topsoil, which includes insects. This helps improve the microclimate and can reduce desertification while enhancing the environment. As a result, grass barriers have become a common strategy for stabilizing shifting dunes.
往往沙漠边缘的老百姓家里面，一开门沙子就进了屋，他们最先感受到荒漠化防治的必要性。荒漠化与他们息息相关，影响到他们的生产生活，危害身体健康。我感觉影片中这一群人实际上是很乐观的，由他们来做治沙工作也是荒漠化地区比较常见的。
The residents on the outskirts of the desert are the first to feel the need for desertification control. As soon as they open their doors, sand invades their homes, posing a threat to their health and affecting their daily life and productivity. In the film, the people appear optimistic to me. It is common for them to take on the responsibility of controlling sand in areas affected by desertification.
实际上好多治沙的措施都来源于老百姓，是从生产和实践当中总结得出经验。有植被的自然沙丘就能够形成一个大的沙包，所以通过草方格沙障的方式，就能够起到防止沙子流失的作用，这是老百姓在生产当中发现的。
Desertification control strategies often originate from people's experience in production and practice. They have found it in production that natural dunes with vegetation can serve as sandbags, making it possible to employ grass barriers for stabilizing shifting dunes.
沙尘暴这种自然现象其实是无法被彻底消除的，但危害能够被减小。在居住区附近进行沙尘暴的防治，不会像之前一开门家里全都是沙尘。
Sandstorms are inevitable, but we can reduce the harm. By preventing and controlling sandstorms near residential areas, we can keep houses free from sand when people open their doors.
产生沙尘暴的有三大要素，一个是沙尘源，沙子是地质年代形成的，是消灭不了的；第二个因素是大风，尤其现在极端气候事件频发，大风消除不了；第三个因素是裸露的地表。沙尘暴的形成，气候和自然环境占主导，根除或消灭沙尘暴的可能性非常小。
There are three major factors that cause sandstorms: the source of sand and dust, strong winds, and exposed ground surfaces. These factors are mostly atmospheric and geographic, making it difficult to eliminate them.
沙漠边缘地带的人们感受到近些年房间里的沙子变少了，这很难说是来源于人为的荒漠化防治的成果，还是自然规律。荒漠化的产生不光有人为因素，自然其实起到了主导作用。
The residents on the outskirts of the desert have noticed less sand in their rooms lately. It’s hard to determine if this is because of human efforts to control desertification or natural factors. Human activities are not solely responsible for desertification; nature factors also play a significant role.
在局部地区，不按照自然规律的人类活动是导致荒漠化的主要原因。在缺乏水资源，不适宜开垦的地方生产，就会导致土地的荒漠化。还有草原过度放牧导致草原超载，植被退化，草皮没了，沙子就会露出来，这样的变化不可逆，就变成流动沙丘了。以及在沙漠周边开采修路，固定沙丘被道路分割，也会变成流动沙丘。
The primary reason for desertification in specific regions is human activities that ignore natural laws. Inadequate reclamation in areas with limited water resources leads to desertification. Overgrazing of grasslands causes irreversible changes, such as degradation of vegetation and loss of topsoil. It formats shifting dunes. Road construction or mining in the desert separates fixed dunes. It also formats shifting dunes.
做水土保持和荒漠化防治最大的困难和挑战是水资源和因地制宜。影片里老百姓选种白刺或梭梭，当地物种耗水量少，更容易适应当地环境。北方荒漠化，水的问题是最重要的。
The major challenges in soil and water conservation and desertification control are preserving water resources and localizing efforts. In the film, people opt for planting Nitraria tangutorum or Haloxylon ammodendron, as these species require less water and are well-adapted to the water scarcity issue in Northern China.
其次是尊重环境。影片当中老百姓很有经验，在有庇护的低洼小环境低密度栽种。要注意减少“沙割”，如果没有选择合适的环境，风一吹，沙子就像锯子一样把树锯断；如果是太低洼的地方又会被沙子埋住。
The second major issue is environmental respect. The people in the film are skilled at planting in a sheltered, low-lying area with low density. They know that the sand can cut down trees as a handsaw during the wind blowing if there is no shelter, or completely bury the entire area if it is too low-lying.
我们国家荒漠化防治的效果，是全球范围内实践力度最大的。从中国加入《联合国防治荒漠化公约》开始，国家治理的力度是空前的，现在确实起到了很好的防治效果，人为破坏显著减少。
China is the global leader in desertification control. Since joining the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification, China has made unprecedented efforts. These efforts have resulted in excellent outcomes, effectively reducing man-made damage.
周金星（左）在活动现场 Zhou Jinxing（left side）at BISFF
沙尘暴是不可能消亡的。它一定会来，但是人会做自己的努力，我信命但我不认命。
Sandstorms are inevitable, but people will make their own efforts to deal with it. I believe in fate, but I don’t just accept it.
”
对谈嘉宾：周浩
Guest Speaker: Zhou Hao
职业纪录片导演，曾经做过十多年记者。2001年开始制作纪录片，其作品百余次在世界各地电影节入选、获奖。2014年，《棉花》获第51届金马奖最佳纪录片奖。2015年，《大同》获第三十一届圣丹斯电影节评委会特别奖、第九届亚太电影大奖最佳纪录片奖，蝉联第52届金马奖最佳纪录片奖等。
He is a professional documentary filmmaker who has worked as a journalist for more than a decade. Film festivals have screened and awarded his films all over the world for more than a hundred times. In 2014, his film Cotton won the Best Documentary at the 51st Golden Horse Film Festival; In 2015, his film The Chinese Mayor won multiple awards including the Special Jury Prize at the 31st Sundance Film Festival, the Best Documentary Feature Film at the 9th Asia Pacific Screen Awards, and the Best Documentary at the 52nd Golden Horse Awards for the second consecutive time.
周浩 Zhou Hao：
之所以会去关注到这样一群治沙的人，最早是对于中国治理荒漠化、在沙漠植树的事情有兴趣，所以当时就选择了甘肃的古浪县。这个县蛮有传统的，从上个世纪80年代开始，就有几个老头开始在沙漠和县城边上开始植树，这个县城一直有非常好的传统。因为风沙在逼近县城，所以说他们一定要把风沙阻止在县城之外。
I chose such a group of people in Gulang County in Gansu Province because I was interested in China’s efforts to combat desertification and plant trees in the desert. This county has a tradition of controlling desertification. Since the 1980s, a few old men have been planting trees in the desert and on the county’s edge. They believe that by doing so, they can stop the wind and sand from approaching the county.
《听，鸟儿在叫》这个片子起初是想做一个宏大叙事的东西，但这样做宣传味可能会很重，所以就想从小处着手。我们好像都在谈一个非常宏大的主题，但这么宏大的命题是由谁来完成的？实际上都是由很多普通人完成的。
Originally, I intended Before Sandstorm to be a grand narrative, but it might have too much propaganda. Hence, I resolved to start from something smaller. We may center our discussions on a grand theme, but it is ordinary individuals who truly bring it to fruition.
环境治理对他们来说，概念是有点空和大的。片子里有一句话说，“他们是为了环保，我们是为血汗钱。”所以对大多数普通人而言，能够就近打工，是最关键的问题。现在中国治理沙漠已经形成一条生产链，一方面有政府资金，一方面也有大厂的资金，在区域内它已经变成一个新的地方产业了。
Environmental governance may seem complex and distant to ordinary individuals. It’s implied in the film that people prioritize their hard-earned money over environmental concerns. For most people, the primary interest is having job opportunities near their homes. As a result, China has developed a production chain for desertification control, where government funding and support from large factories have transformed it into a thriving local industry.
他们种树并不是在夏天种，一般是在春天和秋天。你们看“种”这件事好像有些荒诞，他们先把表面层浮沙去掉，下面颜色稍微深一点的土壤是有含水量的，用来种易成活的小灌木。在夏天的时候还要再浇一两次水。如果情况好的话，存活率甚至会高过60-70%；如果活不下来，他们就第二年再做。其实有政府投资，也有蚂蚁森林的项目，他们也在大力投入。
Planting trees in the film usually occurs in the spring and fall, not during the summer. The process of planting seems absurd to the audience. They remove the topsoil and use the darker soil underneath, which has moisture, to plant small shrubs that are easy to grow. In the summer, they water it once or twice more. If everything goes well, the survival rate will be higher than 60-70%. If it doesn’t survive, they try again the next year. Both government and Ant Forest invested in these programs.
（沙尘暴）大多数是大自然的力量，人类只需要控制自己的行为。比如我们这里三个月（荒漠化防治）好像是有成绩，但如果把这个成绩放到100年200年的时间尺度来看，人类的力量还是非常弱小的。我们只是做到自己能做的事情，别作恶就行了，要这么去理解。
Sandstorms are mostly a force of nature that humans can hardly control. What we can control is our own behavior. Three months of desertification control seems like an achievement, but in 100 or 200 years scale, human power is still limited. We should simply focus on doing what we can without causing harm.
这个片子或许有一种哲学上的意义，他们用说话来打发时间，说话不一定有意义，经常是车轱辘话。甚至是劳动的意义也许都是非常有限的，但其实人生有时候就是在一种无意义中间，找到它的意义。
The film may have a philosophical meaning. The people in the film spend their time talking, without making much sense. Even their labor makes little sense. But actually, life can sometimes find its meaning in a kind of meaninglessness.
这个片子我们首映是在阿姆斯特丹国际纪录片电影节，当地人解说形容他们在干一件西西弗斯式的工作，就是每天把石头推到山上，石头又滚下来了。这件事情做的时间长了以后，好像就被赋予了某种意义。我自己也没有一个结论，其实我们自己的生命就需要去用一件一件事情去充满它。
We premiered this film at the Amsterdam International Documentary Film Festival. The local audience described the tasks shown in the film as Sisyphean. Over time, this repetitive action seems to gain certain significance. I'm still undecided myself about whether I should constantly fill my life with things or not.
像片中的女人说的，“女人的活是一件接一件。”你不知道自己做的东西有没有用，但是我们的生命往往就是这样度过的，这是我对这件事的理解。
A woman in the film describes the daily routine of women as an endless cycle. We often spend our lives not knowing if what we do is meaningful or not. That’s my interpretation of the people in the film.
我会更喜欢这个片子的英文名，沙尘暴来临之前（Before Sandstorm），就像周金星老师说的，沙尘暴是不可能消亡的。它一定会来，但是人会做自己的努力，我信命但我不认命。我知道沙尘暴一定会来的，但是能有一点小小的倔强，我希望它别来。
I prefer the English title of this film, Before Sandstorm. As Mr. Jinxing Zhou just mentioned, sandstorms are inevitable. They are inevitable, but people will make their own efforts to deal with it. I believe in fate, but I don’t just accept it. I know sandstorms are bound to come, but I hope we can be stubborn and prevent it.
周浩在活动现场 Zhou Hao at BISFF
以上活动直播回放可参见BISFF视频号
A live replay of this event is available at BISFF's WeChat (ID: bisffest)
Photographers：胡一苇Hu Yiwei、任怡梦Ren Yimeng、王麓尧Wang Luyao
Editors：周思雅Zhou Siya、赵紫瑄Zhao Zixuan、苗辰绪Miao Chenxu、
周菁晶Zhou Jingjing、王灏宇Wang Haoyu、杜晋宇Du Jinyu
Translator : Chengxi Hong, Wally
合作伙伴
世界自然基金会(WWF)是在全球享有盛誉的、最大的独立性非政府环保组织之一。自1961年在瑞士成立以来，已经在全世界拥有500多万的支持者和一个在100多个国家和地区活跃着的全球网络。从本土到全球，WWF用基于科学的独特工作方式，提供满足人与自然需求的创新解决方案。WWF的使命是遏止地球自然环境的恶化，创造人类与自然和谐相处的美好未来。